AUGUST 2003

Vital Signs

A Visit With Carlotta Flores

By DT Staff

The owner/operator of El Charro Café was recently awarded the mayor's Heart of Downtown Award by Mayor Robert Walkup, in recognition of the downtown destination that her family has developed, her longstanding commitment to downtown, and for her passion for Tucson's history and culture. The Downtown Tucsonan recently sat down with Carlotta Flores to learn more about El Charro and her views on Downtown.

DT: Tell us about the history of your family's business, when and where it began, who were the key players, and about the business as it is today.

Carlotta Flores: The restaurant started in 1922. My great-aunt (Monica Flin) was the oldest of eight children, 4 girls and 4 boys. All the women were extremely business-oriented woman; they were into all kinds of business. The men generally worked for other people. The women owned their businesses. The women were wonderful cooks, with a natural knack for cooking, without going to cooking school. My great-aunt started the restaurant. Her first restaurant was on 4th Ave. where Caruso's is now. My aunt would go out and take the order, she hardly had any money, and then run out the backdoor to the Chinese grocer and charge the groceries and then come back and make the order. She would serve the customer and get their money and then go back later in the day to pay the Chinese grocer back. I can't imagine anyone waiting that long to eat, but I guess it was a different time. The restaurant became very well known and became very busy. She needed more space so she moved to where the Temple of Music and Art is today. She was at this location for a few years, but again it became too small. She then moved over to where La Placita Village is now and stayed there for over 40 years. This location is where her business really bloomed and blossomed. The one thing about my aunt, from 1922 until the day she closed (then we came in and took over the restaurant) she never remarried. She lived on premise. I can see now that that was the only feasible way to run the business at that time. Certain things because of growth, because of the general way of society is, made the restaurant change somewhat. When people come to me and say, "the tacos don't taste the same", I say "I hope they don't." The product today is much safer, of better quality, and it's going to change even more. You have to realize that change is part of growth. A lot of people don't like that. I've always said that about Downtown. A lot of people don't want us to change, but we need to change if we are going to continue to prosper and have something for tomorrow.

DT: Is it true that El Charro is the oldest continuously-operating, family-owned Mexican restaurant in the U.S.?

CF: As far as we know. I'm sure that if you go into Texas or New Mexico there is going to be someone there that may say the same. What's interesting about us is that we are the oldest that we can find documented in the city and possibly Arizona.

DT: Did El Charro really invent the chimichanga?

CF: This is perhaps a bit of a controversy. The chimichanga and El Charro go way back. I've done a lot of research on it. The Macayo family claimed that their dad Woody Johnson did it. The Jacobs family claimed it was done there. There are several others that have stories about chimichangas. I'll always say that it is one of those stories much like nachos. You don't really know who invented it, but someone did. Maybe it all happened at the same time. All the stories are so good and so closely related. Perhaps it's one of those things that spread quicker than the speed of light because all of a sudden they were everywhere. The word chimichanga wasn't used outside Arizona until maybe 10 years ago. Restaurants had "deep-fried burros". Some of the words that we knew only in our region have now spread to everywhere else. I will say that we need to be given credit for the chimichanga but I would also say that there is a dozen or less Hispanic/Mexican families that feel that they have had something to do with it. So we are going to say that we all had something to do with it.

DT: How do you account for El Charro's popularity?

CF: I attribute El Charro's popularity to the fact that El Charro and Tucson are synonymous. A lot of people travel through here and tourism plays an important role. When people travel, there are two things they have to do, find a place to eat and find a place to sleep. When people want to try and find the flavor of a city, more often than not it's food-related. The quickest and easiest way to flavor a city is to eat what's popular in that city's region. My aunt also played a role in El Charro's popularity because she was involved in the community. She knew a lot of people, cared for a lot of people, was involved with what was happening in her community. She built a very personal relationship with her customers as I have and people respond to that. Familiarity makes people feel comfortable.

DT: Are there any recipes that are still considered family secrets?

CF: They are not family secrets anymore. I want staff to know what we are serving. I want staff to know what we are doing and be able to sell what we have. I want them to be able to tell the customer the ingredients in case they may have a health concern. People want a safe product and a clean environment. They want fair pricing and they want to feel welcomed.

DT: What other businesses do you run?

CF: We have a restaurant on the East side. We have restaurants at the Tucson Airport. I'm also the owner of a USDA food plant where we do Mexican food products. We have involvements with the Basha family where we do food for their delis and meat departments for all their stores. We do food for Food City. We just fed firefighters of the Aspen fire who require 6,000 calories a day each.

DT: We noticed that you have a website that offers salsa for sale. What other kinds of marketing does El Charro engage in to promote the business or to attract local residents or visitors who have not previously been to your restaurant?

CF: We do a lot. First of all, members of our family serve on many boards, which is something I require of them and of our managers. Outreach to community is important and they can pick something that they like. Animals, politics, medical, whatever it may be. It exposes them to many things. Besides that, I have had relationships with people who have come through here that have helped us do a couple of cookbooks. We've done three nice cookbooks and are getting ready to do a fourth. My son has also done a margarita bar book. The books help. The salsas definitely help. The USDA factory with the tamales help. We've been very fortunate that the Food Network has been here four times this year which is good not only for the restaurant but for Tucson, to be exposed at that level. We also have an entertainment component of our restaurants where we have club-like entertainment on Fridays and Saturdays. We have a catering home (Stillwell House) that is owned by my daughter-in-law and son. We do a lot of events at the Stillwell House.

DT: With all of your enterprises including restaurants around the Tucson area, the airport, your product line, you could have chosen to abandon the Downtown location of El Charro, yet you didn't. Did it ever occur to you to leave Downtown?

Carlotta Flores

CF: It's so strange because when I say I'm going home, my children say "which one?" This is my home (El Charro Downtown). I have a real tough time leaving here. I probably wouldn't have such a tough time retiring if it wasn't for Downtown. I love it here. I don't really know, but I just know that I've never wanted to leave Downtown. In a selfish way, I've asked my children if they decide if that they are going to move on and put restaurants in other locations, that they have to at least keep this as the corporate office. This would assure that they are always here and are always a part of Downtown.

DT: With parts of the presidio wall to be restored in some fashion through the Rio Nuevo Project, the El Presidio neighborhood seems destined for some significant changes in the coming years. What do you foresee as far as change to the character of El Presidio? What will the area look like in 10 years?

CF: I think El Presidio is the gem of Downtown that no one knows about. I don't think people realize that when "Old Town" is spoken of, it is here. They've just never named it that. I think that Mary Lou Focht of Old Town Artisans contributes greatly to this area. The Tucson Museum of Art has brought prestige and culture to the area. We have current officers in the neighborhood association that are really trying to blend and work with the businesses and the businesses with them as well. Would I like to see more? Yes. Would I like better street lighting? Yes. Would I like better signage for my business? Yes. Would more business hurt it? I don't think more businesses would hurt it on this street because it is mainly that. Across the street from here we are likely to see a lot of change.

DT: ...Which brings us to my next question. What do you see as the best use for the parking lot across the street from El Charro?

CF: I see mixed use. I don't think that it should be all houses. I don't think it should be all parking. Will it hurt my business? Probably. Will it help my business? Probably. I think that it can be done in a really nice way. I think that there can be some parking, some type of retail, and some housing. If it's thought out that way, it could really be nice. I'm very verbal about saying that I don't think it helps to have either high-end housing or low income subsidized housing. Moderate or middle of the road is the best way to go. Also, I think that if housing is not done correctly, we can end up with a lot of housing no one lives in because I think there are other things we need to look at. We have no markets. If we are going to be a Downtown that's going to have so many houses then we need amenities for people who live Downtown and open at the time where people can do those things. Downtown can't be everything for everyone, but if it's going to have this blend of people and houses then they need to think of amenities.

DT: You are on the board of the Metropolitan Tucson Convention and Visitors Bureau. How do see Downtown Tucson being positioned in the future as a tourist or visitor attraction?

CF: I think all Downtowns already are those things. I have nothing against gaming casinos coming into Arizona (although I did in the beginning). I feel that they have brought in a lot of outside money into our area. The only thing that honestly bothers me about it is that they become such venues of entertainment. We let some of the things that bond money or city tax dollars have gone into paying, like the TCC, to not be used for everything that it should be used for. A lot of these events are now leaving our inner city. When we used to get the Rodeo Parade downtown, it wasn't that I made a lot of money on those days, because it was just chaotic, but it brought a lot of people downtown. Then they took the Parade away. Today we have this community center (TCC) and if we don't take care of it and become competitive enough with it, I'm afraid it could become ghost-like. There are so many other venues that people can go to. We need to work at it and put something in place so people have a reason to come here other than just to get from one end of Broadway to the other. However, I don't think this is happening with young people. I think the young people are never given enough credit at how much they help Downtown business. The Rialto Theatre, Club Congress, 4th Ave., and U of A are like the yellow brick road. The young people walk this road and spend money and keep businesses open. It's a market that very few people have caught onto. Without them we would really be in a ghost town. I feel it would be unfair to take it away from them and it's unfair if we don't offer them incentives to be able to open up the kind of shops these people gravitate to.

DT: Do you believe that the Downtown area could support more restaurants or become a restaurant destination center, much like what we see out on Tanque Verde?

CF: Could Downtown support more? If the restaurants themselves had monies to ride out the summer and stay open later than 2:30pm, then yes. However, I'm not sure that more restaurants would be better for Downtown at this point. I would not want to see more fast-food places Downtown because that would ruin what we have. We need other things to bring more activity other than just restaurants.

DT: How involved in the business are other members of the family and at what point does the next generation take the lead?

CF: The exit strategies of one's life are difficult. I see myself in the background as more time goes on. Though, I see myself as always playing a role. The last ten years of our lives here, my husband Ray and I have chosen to let go of more and more and to pass on areas of responsibility to those in our family that have chosen to continue in the business. The best leader needs to know when to retract. Each year I retract a little bit more when it comes to decision processes for the future of the restaurant. However, each year my enthusiasm and my love for the restaurant exude more and more. I know that there is a happy balance. I can live with that and I hope that they can too.

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Checking Out a Quest for Seven Gold Cities, at Wells Fargo

by Karen Falkenstrom

Go for the gold: free history with every new account!

When I moved to Tucson I banked at First Interstate. This was more by default than choice. I had an old First Interstate account, lying fallow from a prior attempt to move west, and I simply re-activated it upon arriving here. Years later, Wells Fargo bought First Interstate and raised the ATM fee, whereupon I moved to a credit union. Credit unions feel so democratic to me. You can usually talk to a real person when you call your credit union, and they have truly humane penalties should one happen to bounce a check. Which one should never do, of course.

But I'm considering opening a new Wells Fargo account now, for art's sake. I recently had to drop something off at the downtown branch and was struck by the huge murals on the upper portions of the walls. I vaguely remember them from years ago, but I was youthful and carefree, and must have taken them for granted. The landscapes are so stylized, the figures so heroic andÉwell, WPA-ish: all those fiercely dedicated and noble workers, pilgrims and natives.

The WPA (Works Progress Administration, in case you don't know) was a visionary plan to stimulate the nation's ailing economy during the Depression. As part of FDR's New Deal, the Federal government hired artists and craftspeople by the thousands to help provide a built environment in which the average American would not feel dejected and hopeless. Yes, I know, it sounds crazy, that artists and craftspeople could be thought of as socio-economic forces, but I did say "visionary" did I not? We got parks and roadways and monuments and feats of engineering previously-undreamed-of. All wrought with an exacting eye for detail and community service. It wasn't perfect, of course, but it was a good bit of governing.

A little research revealed that though the murals in the Wells Fargo Bank downtown are not an actual WPA project, they are indeed by an actual WPA artist. In the early 1930's, Michigan-born artist Jay Datus received a WPA mural commission for the Arizona State Capitol building in Phoenix. After several years of research, Datus completed The Pageant of Arizona Progress in 1938.

Datus relocated to Phoenix, founded the Kachina School of Art, and continued to research the region's history and peoples. Years later, commissioned by Ambassador Lew Douglas to create a mural for the former Southern Arizona Bank and Trust, Datus completed The Legend of the Seven Cities of Cibola in Tucson.

It may be an indicator of the difference between Phoenix and Tucson, or simply an inevitable result of his research into the complex and often tragic history of the land that Datus chose to elaborate, not on the progress of white civilization in Arizona, but on the folly of Spanish conquest.

The Tucson murals focus on Coronado's expedition to locate the seven legendary cities of riches that were reputed to lie north of Mexico. At the beginning, we see Estevan the Moor, sent ahead as a scout, listening to reports of the treasures by Indian medicine men. In reality, Estevan was a slave that had accompanied Cabeza de Vaca on his grueling journey from Tampa Bay to Pecos in the early 1530's (those weren't the cities' names then, of course, I just thought you might want to look at a map). As a reward for being the first African-born slave to traverse Texas, Estevan was assigned as slave to Fray Marcos de Niza and sent on another expedition. He was not a very lucky guy.

It was on this expedition that he was sent ahead as a scout, and slain in Hawikuh, near present-day Zuni, New Mexico. As the Handbook of Texas puts it: "[Estevan] announced his intentions to make peace and heal the sick. He told the villagers that he had been sent by white men who would soon arrive and instruct them in divine matters. The village elders, suspicious of his claims that he came from a land of white men because he was dark, and resentful of his demands for turquoise and women, killed him when he attempted to enter the village."

Fray Marcos, many days safely behind Estevan, heard of the fatal attempt to acquire turquoise and women, turned tail and returned to Spain. But either out of fear or hallucination, he corroborated the stories of golden cities. Thus, Coronado's expedition.

The rest of the mural shows the planning of the expedition, the thousand Conquistadores who set forth and marched as far as present-day Kansas, dreaming of gold and battling the whole way. The last panel depicts a rather dejected group of Spaniards after another battle, as they realize that the seven golden cities don't exist.

Ironically, Wells Fargo was founded in part to transport gold, although it was far too late for Coronado. In 1852, the fledgling company offered "banking--buying gold, selling paper bank drafts as good as gold--and express--rapid delivery of the gold and anything else valuable." And much to the company's credit, it has a decent track record of funding causes that a idealist like myself can believe in: education and creativity making the world a better place, and stuff like that. So I may go open an account, if only to have a reason to be in a big monumental building with big monumental art now and then. But I'll have to check on those ATM fees first...

Well Fargo's Downtown office is open Monday through Thursday, 9:00amÑ4:00pm and Friday, 9:00am-5:00 pm. You might want to tell the employees and guards you're going to stand there and gaze at the paintings awhile, or they might find your actions suspicious. To read about Datus' Phoenix mural, go to http://www.dlapr.lib.az.us/is/murals.htm.

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Reclaiming Rio Nuevo's Landfills

by D.A. Barber

As Rio Nuevo moves ahead, the City has set its sights on the area at the foot of Sentinel Peak west of the Santa Cruz River – the location for the Tucson Origins Cultural Park and other planned projects. But to redevelop this area, the City has had to deal with former landfills in the path of development.
"The Rio Nuevo Project has three old landfills on it and we've used some past Ôbrownfield' grant funds to perform an assessment," says Karen Masbruch, director of the City Department of Environmental Management.
Brownfields are property, buildings or vacant lots that have perceived or real environmental problems. The area along the Santa Cruz has more than its share, including a former 1890's brickyard, quarry sites and the landfills, which include a 1950's city garbage dump.

"You may have no environmental issues there, but you don't know until you complete an assessment," says Masbruch.

The city has to own the properties in order to qualify for any other EPA brownfield grants, according to Masbruch. "Fortunately, there's a bus barn in the middle of a landfill development which the city is purchasing," says Masbruch. "We have to purchase the property by October 2003 to qualify for a grant."

To accommodate Citizen Auto Stage, "we've purchased a replacement location and we're in site design for that replacement location now," says John Updike, senior project manager for Rio Nuevo. The City acquired a parcel at a new 8-acre industrial park near Palo Verde and Ajo for a favorable price since they were the first to purchase land at that location.

"Then we'll work with them through a development agreement to produce the new site and then exchange and become owners of their current site," says Updike.

Plans for the old bus barn should be finalized by the end of the year.

In the mean time, the three Rio Nuevo landfill sites currently being dealt with include: Nearmont Landfill Pilot Project area, between Nearmont and Congress; Rio Nuevo north, east of Menlo Park and south of St. Mary's; and, Rio Nuevo south – called the Congress Landfill, south of Congress and north of "A" Mountain.

"They're all unlined and basically un-engineered landfills but fortunately there is a natural underlying clay," says Masbruch, who notes there has been no waste showing up in the ground water in that area.

"You'll see these landfills all along the riverbed," says Masbruch. "What happened was it would flood and take away the river bank, so people would use waste to build-up the banks and that's why you see a lot of landfills along the river."

For Rio Nuevo to press on, Tucson will need to develop these areas where closed landfills exist, something that has been anticipated since the Master Plan was developed during 2000-2001...

"It affected the Master Plan and that's why the uses, particularly south of Clearwater, were pretty low density to the point of being passive recreational once you get past the Covento complex to the south," says Updike. "At that point the pilot project was sort of a glimmer in our eyes and not yet a reality."

The natural degradation process can take many decades in the desert southwest, so the environmental management department assisted the Rio Nuevo Project by completing a pilot test project to accelerate this natural landfill degradation process.

According to the City's website: "Development cannot occur atop these closed landfills until the waste buried beneath has degraded sufficiently that waste settlement and landfill gas generation are no longer a concern."...

The Nearmont Landfill Stabilization Pilot Project, begun in June 2001, involves injecting air and water into the buried refuse in order to accelerate the natural biodegradation of the landfill waste. The objective of this pilot landfill stabilization project was to demonstrate that such aerobic degradation is feasible and cost effective for stabilizing the landfill within 3-5 years.

"This is pretty innovative stuff and involved a little bit of risk-taking for a change by the City and it's paying off," says Updike. "Karen really went out on a limb with this project and there was some healthy skepticism about whether it would work."

The project recently wrapped-up and the City is in the process of completing the final report. Now a second project is being constructed at the Congress Landfill near the planned Tucson Origins Cultural Park on the west side of I-10.

"They're moving forward with the interpretive park and that's how we selected the area to do our pilot project next because it's directly east of the archaeological work that went on," says Masbruch.

When the park complex is completed it will be the site of the restored Convento and Mission Gardens, Arizona State Museum and Arizona Historical Society, Rancho Chuk-Shon, an International Mercado, new and renovated residences, and other cultural attractions around a central plaza.

When construction atop these landfills is begun, the developers will still have to provide some information to the City including geo-technical information that shows stability for any kind of foundation.

"They have to provide information that will show they are going to take care of any landfill gas issues," says Masbruch.

"You may have little pockets of it but we'll have removed so much that it would be hard for those pockets to collect in one area and be a problem," says Masbruch. "If we do our job, the developers won't have to add anything."

As far as the brownfields go, the City just received a $275,000 EPA grant, of which $75,000 will be used to restore the Greyhound station site after demolition, and $200,000 will be used to clean up the state Department of Transportation site on Toole Ave.